tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post115127286126739637..comments2023-12-01T10:53:44.750-08:00Comments on Against All Heresies: Marriage: an ever-fixed mark?M. Alexanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11628512667279950596noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1152057749122085922006-07-04T17:02:00.000-07:002006-07-04T17:02:00.000-07:00Yep, this is definitely a hot topic!It seems that ...Yep, this is definitely a hot topic!<BR/>It seems that a lot of blogs I read have people pouting about the annulment process and how "unfair" it can be (not the blogs mentioned in this comment, mind you, these blogs are more discussing).<BR/><BR/>Just today one of the questions over at EWTN had a woman complaining about not being able to receive communion.The question just makes me shake my head and wonder what's wrong with people -- it really bugs me when people act as though the church is punishing them!<BR/><BR/>What's going to happen if her husband's marriage is considered valid??<BR/><BR/>It's also sad that she's been receiving communion the entire time that she was having sex outside marriage without realizing that it is a sin.<BR/><BR/>Here's the question:<BR/>"My husband and I are expecting our first child in 8 weeks. We have only been married for 4 months. We were planning on getting married and had already gone to see my priest about getting his previous marriage annuled before we found out I was pregnant. Needless to say, my pregnancy wasn't the reason why we got married, but because of his previous marriage, we were not able to marry in the Catholic church. I just found out that because our marriage is considered "invalid" in the church's eyes, I am not able to receive communion. I am very upset about this and am not sure how to deal with it. Taking communion is something I cherish deeply and look forward to every Sunday. We do plan to continue with the annulment process and will have a convalidation ceremony, but as we know, that will take about a year on average. I do know that not all annulments are granted. If his isn't, does that mean I can never receive communion again?<BR/>I feel as if I am being punished. Taking communion is something I've done since I was 7 years old. How am I supposed to handle not taking communion for a year or so or possibly never? I love my faith and want to raise my daughter in the Catholic church, but this has not been easy for me to accept.<BR/><BR/>Also, can my daughter be baptized in the Catholic church even though our marriage is considered "invalid"?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151985055779518932006-07-03T20:50:00.000-07:002006-07-03T20:50:00.000-07:00Wow! Fifty comments on various stages and aspects...Wow! Fifty comments on various stages and aspects of the marriage/divorce/annulment issue!!! Where will it end? Do I see one hundred comments on the horizon??<BR/>YIKES!tradcatholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622408585220847550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151975695609041892006-07-03T18:14:00.000-07:002006-07-03T18:14:00.000-07:00"moving on" doesn't have to involve finding anothe..."moving on" doesn't have to involve finding another partner. Petrus's aunt raised the children on her own. One of my best friends is currently doing the same with her children (her husband died).<BR/><BR/>Raising children on your own IS hard, but so is the issue of adding step-parents and (possibly) step-children into mix. It can just add to the hurt and abandonment felt by the children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151933422644224962006-07-03T06:30:00.000-07:002006-07-03T06:30:00.000-07:00I think we can all agree in the sanctity in marria...I think we can all agree in the sanctity in marriage and that marriage in this time is in trouble. <BR/><BR/>We all basically said the same thing but added our own personal twist to our responses- because marriage & divorce is personal.<BR/><BR/>I did pray alot ot save my marriage- I never in a million years wanted to be a single mother. Let me tell you, it's hard work. <BR/><BR/>But the situation I was in- it was better to leave. There are times when you have to leave, especially if you have children & they are in danger (spiritually as in my case). In fact it was a priest who helped me leave my marriage. <BR/><BR/>I waited to see if me packing up would be a wake up call, it wasn't. He has moved on and "married" someone else. <BR/><BR/>I am not bitter or angry. I have moved on. My only regret about my post was that so many have automatically assumed the worse of me for being "divorced" and showing a desire to move on. <BR/><BR/>I am really not that bad, folks. :)The Crescathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06117353945124506952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151643800121322192006-06-29T22:03:00.000-07:002006-06-29T22:03:00.000-07:00Just one for the road.I rent a condo apt near Rale...Just one for the road.<BR/>I rent a condo apt near Raleigh, NC and all the inhabibitants except me, are in various stages of marriage/un-marriage; 1.unhappily married, 2. shacked up, 3.working couple not wanting kids, 4.smoking/arguing couple also unhappy, 5.another divorced and shacking up, 5.married and divorced three times and shacking up<BR/>6.hermit crabby old couple?married to each other <BR/>7.and the best of all, an 82 year old woman who 3years ago was divorced from her husband of 60 years. She had had 'enough'. So, last year HE moved up here into the next building because he missed her! They don't speak to one another even now.<BR/>We frequently have get-togethers over the barbecue and everyone has a great time. No one talks about anything contraversial - not religion, not politics. This is Baptist country, after all, the religion of 'NICE'. <BR/><BR/>We have had a great interchange on Ms Alexander's blog re: the marriage commitment but in the end we all believe the same truth about its sanctity and purpose. Not so with my neighbors. Nice as they are, they have no clue of what marriage is about (except maybe the crabby couple I never see). So, in this chiselling out of the truth, I remember this bigger picture of souls clueless and not able to find their way because they don't even know they are lost. Leaven (fungus) that's what we Catholics are to others. We,the South, will RISE again! (with God's help)tradcatholichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622408585220847550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151634601416223962006-06-29T19:30:00.000-07:002006-06-29T19:30:00.000-07:00Strawberry:No problem. We're all Catholics here, j...Strawberry:<BR/><BR/>No problem. We're all Catholics here, just doing the best we can.<BR/><BR/>Blessings to all, and to all, a good night.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151628337182743412006-06-29T17:45:00.000-07:002006-06-29T17:45:00.000-07:00Sin is complicated ... fidelity has a child-like s...Sin is complicated ... fidelity has a child-like simplicity.<BR/><BR/>The irony of the remarriage of divorcees, in my parents case especially, is that these re-marriages other assoorted relationships were very shaky. <BR/><BR/>Then, the children grow up, get married, always a bit wary of the divorced parents the way all married couples are wary of divorced individuals. Of course we obey commandments concerning our parents but we're left, once again, we the "going it alone feeling."<BR/><BR/>And now my parents ... entering their golden years .. face it somewhat alone. Surely they don't enjoy looking back. They would have been better off submitting to the Lord in all things.<BR/><BR/>To the poster whose aunt stayed unmarried but died with her ring on .... she now sits at the feet of Our Lord and her example is one of perfect Christian testimony. I plan on playing it safe and always tending to the garden of my marriage. If it falls apart ... it helps to remember that we only get 65-75 years above ground (on average) before we face our particular judgement.<BR/><BR/>I'm 37, having excellent recall of certain events at age 4, so I'd ride it out with plenty of rosaries and cold showers when necessary.Thomas Coolberthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18006353689817752538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151627735791808442006-06-29T17:35:00.000-07:002006-06-29T17:35:00.000-07:00David,My words were harsher than they should have ...David,<BR/>My words were harsher than they should have been.<BR/>I don't apologize for my views, but for the way I said them.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, and god blessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151621210060393682006-06-29T15:46:00.000-07:002006-06-29T15:46:00.000-07:00Mrs Alexander:I'd like to thank you as well, if on...Mrs Alexander:<BR/><BR/>I'd like to thank you as well, if only for putting up with me, when it would have been easy for you not to. My writings on this subject are on my weblog, available through the links provided in this forum. They will demonstrate my belief in, and support of, the Church's teaching on the indissolubility of marriage.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again, Mary.<BR/><BR/>DLADavid L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151620019357584242006-06-29T15:26:00.000-07:002006-06-29T15:26:00.000-07:00m. alexander:Thanks for your post about defending ...m. alexander:<BR/>Thanks for your post about defending marriage and for allowing a free and open discussion about this topic.<BR/><BR/>The one good thing about the whole CC incident is that it lead me to your blog (which I hadn't read before). I've added you to my Bloglines list, and I look forward to your posts.<BR/><BR/>God bless you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151619711764424652006-06-29T15:21:00.000-07:002006-06-29T15:21:00.000-07:00It doesn't matter what Amy Welborn does (I like he...It doesn't matter what Amy Welborn does (I like her blog, by the way)...what relevance is that. Many others don't (curt jester, cafeteria is closed, I could go on and on).<BR/><BR/>My main point is that I don't understand why so many divorced people play the victim, blame their spouse for the breakup (because after all it was THEM that left, I'm was faithful to my marriage vows, etc) and then get remarried! I especially hate it when people justify their actions "for the sake of the kids"<BR/>TShawn's post was an excellent example of how divorce is extremely bad for the kids. The same goes for getting remarried just so that the kids can have a father/mother -- right --has nothing to do with the adult being lonely, I'm sure! Heck, even Caroline Cannonball stated that she wasn't sure about sending her son off to class during mass because quote: "I will be sitting there all by myself (this is always dreadfully depressing to me)" ! Sheesh, makes my skin crawl.<BR/><BR/>The other person leaving shouldn't be justification for the remaining spouse to suddenly decide that they don't have to be faith to their vows anymore. It makes no sense -- oh, I would have faithful to that person for the rest of my life, but what the heck they're gone so I'll go find someone else.<BR/><BR/>Petrus's aunt, MacFarland, and many others are shining examples of how to move on with your live after being abandoned. My view on marriage don't have to abandon your vows just because your spouse left you. <BR/><BR/>I'm ending this conversation now, because you are obviously have no idea about why so many people in this country are opposed to divorce.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151613577809822682006-06-29T13:39:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:39:00.000-07:00Strawberry:I disagreed with Mary, after making it ...Strawberry:<BR/><BR/>I disagreed with Mary, after making it clear that she "is obviously right about the indissolubility of marriage, and in taking Caroline to task, you could say she means well."<BR/><BR/>I believe in the power of prayer, of the rosary, and of the Scapular. I cited an example of the former as it applied to my own situation. What I mocked was the assumption that any single individual, who happens to be divorced, did not do everything possible to remedy their situation.<BR/><BR/>And if you can't appreciate those sentiments, then I would tend to agree that a direct correspondence would be pointless.<BR/><BR/>This continued misunderstanding -- not to mention the ease with which I have been dragged into it, such is my weakness -- is precisely why I blocked comments. Amy Welborn does it all the time. Go pick on her.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151612770938937682006-06-29T13:26:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:26:00.000-07:00A WISE person would not take the word of someone a...A WISE person would not take the word of someone at face value if that person censors comments on their blogs, mocks prayer, holy water, and scapulars.<BR/><BR/>You also attacked mary alexander on your blog, but then feel free to post comments on her blog (while at the same time deleting hers).<BR/>Why should I take you at face value -- or give you my email address?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151612367242630062006-06-29T13:19:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:19:00.000-07:00"Oh..the rube, then."No, the wise, because they cl...<I>"Oh..the rube, then."</I><BR/><BR/>No, the wise, because they claim not to know everything. They are NOT born every minute.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151612105180325272006-06-29T13:15:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:15:00.000-07:00"The person who takes my explanation at face value..."The person who takes my explanation at face value... that's who knows."<BR/><BR/>Oh..the rube, then. There is one born every minute.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151611924525376652006-06-29T13:12:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:12:00.000-07:00"Or was it that you didn't agree with what they sa...<I>"Or was it that you didn't agree with what they said. who knows."</I><BR/><BR/>The person who takes my explanation at face value... that's who knows.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151611814211923252006-06-29T13:10:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:10:00.000-07:00"thanks an email address -- Please re-read MY comm...<I>"thanks an email address -- Please re-read MY comment for clarification..."</I><BR/><BR/>I did. Looks like we're stuck, stranger.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151611507085717102006-06-29T13:05:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:05:00.000-07:00To chime into this discussion:From what I can see ...To chime into this discussion:<BR/><BR/>From what I can see from your blog, the only reason you disablde comments is because at least two readers did not read what was written. Or was it that you didn't agree with what they said. who knows. We can tell because those comments were censored.<BR/><BR/>"[FOOTNOTE: I will not be taking comments on this particular piece, and judging from the ones I have received so far, this was the right decision. In at least two cases, it is painfully clear that the reader did NOT read what I had written. I am more than willing to entertain any private correspondence. In order to do that, you must send me your e-mail address. I will be in touch.]"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151611325291312302006-06-29T13:02:00.000-07:002006-06-29T13:02:00.000-07:00"Find out why at manwithblackhat at yahoo dot com...."Find out why at manwithblackhat at yahoo dot com."<BR/>great, thanks an email address -- Please re-read MY comment for clarification: "I get enough spam without entering into email conversations with strangers."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151611186902658732006-06-29T12:59:00.000-07:002006-06-29T12:59:00.000-07:00"Why use email? The point of comments/blogs, etc i...<I>"Why use email? The point of comments/blogs, etc is to have a public discussion that everyone can join in and learn from."</I><BR/><BR/>Find out why at manwithblackhat at yahoo dot com.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151610536249390792006-06-29T12:48:00.000-07:002006-06-29T12:48:00.000-07:00Why use email? The point of comments/blogs, etc i...Why use email? The point of comments/blogs, etc is to have a public discussion that everyone can join in and learn from.<BR/><BR/>I get enough spam without entering into email conversations with strangers.<BR/><BR/>"I have learned that most queries for clarification are resolved, either by repeating what I have already written, or inviting the reader to read it again."<BR/>Makes sense -- it was the reader's fault for not understanding. Couldn't be that you were vague or unclear. ;-)<BR/><BR/>In my years of experience with email, and other writen correspondence I learned that most queries for clarification are due to lack of common background on the topic at hand and that input from multiple people helps all involved come to a fuller understanding than just a two-person conversation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151608399136452692006-06-29T12:13:00.000-07:002006-06-29T12:13:00.000-07:00Petrus:I make a point of writing what I mean, and ...Petrus:<BR/><BR/>I make a point of writing what I mean, and meaning what I write. I choose my words and make my distinctions with great care. In four years of weblogging, and more than that on e-mail discussion lists, I have learned that most queries for clarification are resolved, either by repeating what I have already written, or inviting the reader to read it again.<BR/><BR/>I have stated already (and it has been posted for several hours now) that I am available for private correspondence. My address is manwithblackhat at yahoo dot com, by which means all shall be revealed.<BR/><BR/>As opposed to here.David L Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13871706129906941567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151607771340367702006-06-29T12:02:00.000-07:002006-06-29T12:02:00.000-07:00David:You said that you "have confined my challeng...David:<BR/><BR/>You said that you "have confined my challenges to the common assumptions some Catholics make about their brethren who are divorced."<BR/><BR/>I think this statement sums up why your comments seem so vague - and I agree about the dark glass. <BR/><BR/>Are you responding to something that I particularly have said, or are you referring to a group of experiences that you've had and you are trying to respond to them altogether in this forum?<BR/><BR/>At one point, I recall you saying that people don't know how to react to a Catholic who has been divorced. That's probably also true for mother's who have miscarried, or people coming back to the Faith after falling away, or any other tragedy which is particular pointed and painful. <BR/><BR/>Again, I don't understand what the problem is. Some particular people lacking social graces is just part of the human condition. <BR/><BR/>What common assumptions are you referring to? How many of these "common assumptions" have cropped up this discussion?Petrushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06466716383913672292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151602467942127212006-06-29T10:34:00.000-07:002006-06-29T10:34:00.000-07:00david, you claim to be consistent with Church teac...david, you claim to be consistent with Church teachings but in your own blog you mock the prayer and the use of sacrementals. Those statements are dangerously close to blasphemy.<BR/>People who pray do NOT view God as some magic genie. <BR/><BR/>God DOES answer prayers but in HIS time, not yours. You get HIS wish, not your WISH. So, you waited a few years...big deal. What is a few years compare to an eternity? Maybe you would have reconciled, maybe not, but is running off and getting remarried anyway to respect your original marriage vows? <BR/><BR/><BR/>" The answer is simple; pray to God that you and your spouse will reconcile. While you're at it, sprinkle enough holy water all over the house. Otherwise you obviously haven't tried hard enough. After all, they know far better than you what went on in your house, your meeting with the pastor, your bedroom...<BR/><BR/>This approach -- besides making the would-be counselor look like a blithering idiot -- reduces the Almighty to some sort of magic genie. Rub the lamp hard enough and you get your wish, just like that. It doesn't work that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20534374.post-1151601700162342512006-06-29T10:21:00.000-07:002006-06-29T10:21:00.000-07:00Statements made by other comments about the proble...Statements made by other comments about the problems of divorce and its effect on the children, family, etc, is completely consistent with the teachings of the Church and are NOT "common assumptions made by Catholics" (your statement implies that remarks made by the other commenters are just their opinions).<BR/><BR/>From the Catetchism of the Catholic Church<BR/>"2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society."<BR/><BR/>"2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:<BR/>If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself."<BR/><BR/>"1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com