Sunday, November 19, 2006

Marriage: Top Ten List of Why Traditional Catholic Men Do Not Marry



It is obvious that married couples are becoming a minority in the population and according to these statistics analyzed by one of my favorite authors Maggie Gallagher in this article.

From the NCR article:

WASHINGTON — If the decline in marriage is to be reversed, the Church, families and society must do a better job educating children about its value.

That’s the message noted marriage and family experts have in response to a recently released survey showing the percentage of married couples in the U.S. has dipped below 50% for the first time.

According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, 49.7% of U.S. households in 2005 were married-couple families. This is a half-percentage point less than the 50.2% of married-couple families reported in 2004.

“The marriage rate has gone down about half since 1960. The proportion of households that are married has declined from 76% in 1957 to below 50% now. The number of non-family households has climbed,” said Allan Carlson, president of the Howard Center for Family, Religion, and Society. “These are massive changes, and marriage as an institution is in decline.”


I have noticed this trend even amongst traditional Catholics, I am very sorry to say.

From reading blogs and meeting Catholic men I have come up with the Top Ten Reasons Traditional Catholic Men Say They Cannot Marry. See if you agree with any of them.

Traditional Catholic men today:

10. Can't find a young lady who will only wear skirts

9. Can't find a young lady who has not been corrupted by travel.

8. Can't find a young lady who has not been corrupted by attending college.

7. Can't find a young lady who will use NFP.

6. Can't find a young lady who will NOT use NFP.

5. Can't find a young lady whose father will pay a handsome dowry.

4. Can't find a young lady who is the epitome of the Blessed Mother and Barbie.
(if you are under 30 substitute Brittany Spears for Barbie)

3. Can't find a young lady who will homeschool the children.

2. Can't find a young lady who will NOT homeschool the children.

And the number one reason that Traditional Catholic men do not marry is that

1. They are really Bon Vivant Libertines.

68 comments:

Curmudgeon said...

Amusing. Worth a link

gawfer said...

you know what is even more disconcerting Mary, is that as the institution of marriage falls by the way side, so too is the continued decline of basic morality in this nation.

Marriage is ordained by God, but as the general population finds less and less time for God, they have less and less time to persue the values God laid before us.

Elizabeth said...

Interesting article. I liked your list very much, especially number 10 and number 4. They correspond rather closely to my personal experience of some Traditional Catholic young men's disappointment in finding me to be other than their pre-packaged, one-dimensional ideal, all of which would be hilariously funny if I didn't feel sorry for the young men in question because they will probably never find their ideal.

Somerset '76 said...

Obviously, what you're getting at here is the contradictory expectations from different men in traditional Catholic circles, some of whom are doctrinnaire about the expectations of the subculture, and others who are only around for the "smells and bells" which their local Novus Ordo parishes don't provide. Each has their own reason to find something to be desired with the women they find in this milieu.

And there's quite a number of us fellows who don't marry because no one wants us: rightly or wrongly, there's a number of us who are seen as something left to be desired.

Petrus said...

Were you on my last ten dates???

Weird.

ROTFLOL

qlinger said...

I can say that having been out with just one Trad I would be reluctant ( very) to go out with another one. It was only one date but the longest forty five minutes of my life. Yes, it lasted just forty-five minutes! I think that God finally had mercy on me and took me out of that awful situation. LOL

hilary said...

I think there is a simple reason (the trad question aside for a moment) that people don't get married now.

Our parents are all divorced.

When I was a child, I was the only one I knew whose parents had divorced, but by the time I was in junior highschool, almost everyone had divorced parents. It happened that fast.

When you grow up in an entire culture of divorce, it is natural to lose confidence in the institution, or in the culture's ability to support that institution.

It was not until I became a practising Catholic, ten years ago now, and left the secular millieu that I discovered people who still looked upon marriage with a favourable eye.

by that time it was a bit late for me.

Remember this when pointing the finger. Marriage is seen by many, as we were taught to see it, as a danger, a direct threat to one's happiness and security. I was taught by my mother and her friends, both verbally and in every other way, that men leave. This was bolstered by the inescapable fact that my father left. Not too hard to see why people my age and younger are not interested in taking such a risk.

Carolina Cannonball said...

well this is interesting. I didn't even know single traditional men existed. They certainly don't in my stretch of the land where the TLM is outlawed.

I have yet to date a Catholic man who did'nt lose interest when they found out I was not going to have sex outside of marriage.

Carolina Cannonball said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Thomas Shawn said...

Hmm..

Here's a couple of dudes that seem to have hit paydirt recently:
http://radtrad.blogspot.com/
http://truerestoration.blogspot.com/

I don't know a lot of trads, and certainly not a lot of single male trads. Maybe for the "catholic-Taliban" types ... God is serving up a healthy dose of "vocations to the single life."

I came to the Latin Mass, family in tow, so I can't comment or attempt to defend the guys but I know the hell of single life very well.

This weekend, I sorta wondered to myself if I would have hit pay dirt at my local chapel had I showed up single. I suppose God provides. He certainly answered my grovelling prayers. (One week after I started praying the Rosary, wifey's previously lost immigration papers miraculously showed up, within 12 months a baby came along, and within 24 months I had a second. I'll admit to the world, now, that I'm a little scared of the Rosary.)

A monk at St Joseph's Abbey in Spencer, MA once joked to me that he thinks there's a lot of "frustrated monks out there." He could tell this by the books they chose. I was in the very same aisle to which he was referring!!!!!!

I told him could relate to that sentiment but I described to him how I was in the throes of my horrific immigration situation with my wifey stuck in the Philippines.

Maybe there are a lot of misplaced vocations out there and these guys just need to open their ears to God, go on a retreat at a monastery and "face the music."

That being said, I think men need to "cowboy up" a bit. The church needs marrieds, priests and monks ... guys, please pick one.

Thomas Shawn said...

Hilary -

Thank you for the testimony for those of us who did not grow up in the Ward and June Cleaver Super-Christian homes.

I came to believe in God (sometime in my late teens) only in this way, "He's Father that won't abandon me (as opposed to earthly ones.)"

Otherwise, without this adolescent insight, all those "father" analogies in the Bible don't mean a d*mned thing to me.

Now for me, fatherhood is a blank slate .. doing what my eartly one didn't.

It's almost like a Screwtape proposition. How to create a throng of men and women reluctant to marry? Let their parents divorce.

Petrus said...

Cannonball -

you weren't dating Catholic men, then.

Julian said...

Interesting post. First off, I'm not sure that poking fun at men, especially Trad Catholic young men who are practically an endangered species is, shall we say, an optimum strategy at present. It is not as if men don't get mocked plenty already.

Young men can be very foolish and unrealistic (perhaps young women too, who can say?) And their expectations can be unreasonable. Eventually, they mostly settle for something that is near enough to their ideal. In short, they grow up.

In my view, there is no harm in having specific requirements if one has something equally rare and valuable to offer; and providing one is not hypocritical. For example, if one expects good traditional behaviour from one's wife, one should offer the equivalent. As somebody said once, a good marriage may be defined as a good housekeeper wed to a good breadwinner. A bum shouldn't expect a domestic goddess.

(cont.)

Julian said...

(cont.)

Turning to specifics, women who attend what Americans call "college" rarely seem to me to become overencumbered with intellectualism. Putting it politely. Ditto, I imagine, for travel.

I wasn't any kind of Trad when I got married. Little has changed since I became one. My wife always wore skirts or dresses to Mass. Now she adds a hat.

Anonymous said...

Well perhaps you've missed out the biggest reason that so many traditionally inclined Catholic men don't marry is because so many of them are ragging homosexuals drawn by the whiff of the incense and the swish of the silk. I presume they choose celibacy rather than enter either sham marriges or other even less satisfactory relationships. (this not meant to be offensive, but I know a lot of tradional Catholics.)

M. Alexander said...

Julian wrote:

"Turning to specifics, women who attend what Americans call "college" rarely seem to me to become overencumbered with intellectualism. Putting it politely. Ditto, I imagine, for travel."

I suppose that is b/c women are not smart enough to benefit from attending college or travelling. I can see your point- it really would be wasted on them.

Perhaps young women can get jobs in factories and they can save their wages to send their brothers to college.

So if college is out how did you find a woman up to your intellectual standards? Do inform us of where such women are to be found? Meekly learning at your feet? Reading your astute words?

Julian said...

Mary

I am merely reporting an observation. You can spin it any way you like.

Most of us aren't going to make major contributions to the world; the most important roles we will ever play are mother or father.

It simply amuses me to see so much made of attending "college".

Moreover, if I lived in a nation where traditional and conservative religious men are already pretty well cowed, I would not want to add to their anguish by mocking them. That's all.

Julian

Petrus said...

As Shakespeare wrote, "nothing ruins a romance like a woman with a sense of humor."

Anonymous said...

This list is too kind to Catholic bachelors. Most traditional/conservative Catholic men may be looking for a mix of Brittan Spears and the blessed Virgin, while they are not a mix of GI Joe and St Joseph. They remind me of the self consumed intellectuals in college who didn't have to work during college and can't work anywhere after college.
My advice is to man up and suck it up and begin making a family with the most virtuous woman they can convince to be their wife. Stop being a selfish wuss!
Anonymous in DE- but presently in Massachusetts.

Anonymous said...

A less satirical explanation for why Trad Catholic Men aren't willing to settle is that the reasons for marriage are no longer compelling:

1. Mutual promotion of sanctity: If you're already the only living saint you know, who needs a spouse?

2. Procreation: Which would mean children, which would mean sacrifice, which would really put a damper on your freewheeling, bachelor lifestyle.

3. To avoid concupiscense: Sadly, you don't have to watch MTV to be bombarded with sexually explicit images, anymore. When the woman across the counter, in the grocery store aisle, and yes, even sitting in the pew next to you is dressed like a tart, the modestly dressed woman, just isn't that exciting (don't kid yourselves).

A Catholic man (or any man) interested in finding a virtuous woman to espouse might stop asking himself if she's what he wants, and start asking himself if he's worthy of her. If he answers yes, he's probably wrong.

Anonymous said...

Hysterical, and very sad, but true. I've pretty much given up on them. the one who broke my heart talked the talked, spat out every World Youth Day/Life on the Rock lingo/speech about the sanctity of marriage, and the blessings of children, prayed the Rosary and professed a devotion to Our Blessed mother, then preceded to string me along throughout our twenties, travel the world over discerning his vocation, discern all over me before entering the seminary, write to me as if he were in collge throughout his time there, and cut off communication with no explanation after leaving.
Nice guy.. just like St. Joseph. It's very confusing. I guess some of us just fall for the worng ones, just like all women, trad Catholic or not.

Dust I Am said...

New young men are being formed in Catholic homeschooling families with lots of children. Some of them are my grandsons. Hopefully they will consider the priesthood, if God calls them.

For the married vocations, I pray good young Catholic women choose them. [My experience is that young men frequently are not very good 'pickers' of wives. That's why I believe in matchmaking or parental assistance.]

Dust I Am said...

New young men are being formed in Catholic homeschooling families with lots of children. Some of them are my grandsons. Hopefully they will consider the priesthood, if God calls them.

For the married vocations, I pray good young Catholic women choose them. [My experience is that young men frequently are not very good 'pickers' of wives. That's why I believe in matchmaking or parental assistance.]

Anonymous said...

Allow a single orthodox Catholic male to comment, as no one here has hit the nail.

For presumably virtuous women to proclaim that the FEW trad Catholic men in this society are beneath their standards is pathogonomic of a much, MUCH larger problem unique mostly to North American society (and its lovely women): It's known as MAN-HATING. A fancy word for it is misandry. It's something that transcends social and religious boundaries -- Wiccan women suffer from it, too.

The fact is: trad men KNOW what they want, and it isn't the self-absorbed, self-righteous creatures you present yourselves as. Note that this thread wasn't sparked by complaints of men not finding women, but the other way around. Look inward, ladies.

Of course, men expressing this view are always maligned as "bitter." But the bitterness is self-evident and blaring from the other side. "He used me..." "He looked at me like I'm an object..." "He left me..." Blah blah blah. Your appearance on Oprah is long overdue!

Compounding the misandry is its coupling with sanctimony: I've heard all the tongue-clucking I'm going to hear from younger traditional Catholic women about how men have "no right" to tell their truly feminine selves what their role is (e.g., cooking, cleaning, childrearing, etc.)...yet be faulted by these same women for supposedly defaulting on "chivalry." Note the hippocrisy. That, and chivalry has been RE-tooled (i.e., distorted) to mean that men are to tolerate any form of female nonsense, excessive demands, etc.

The fact is, most divorce is initiated by WOMEN. That's right. And not versus men who have deserted them, either. In fact, for married couples age 50+, according to neuropsychiatrist Louann Brizendine, author of "The Female Brain," 2/3 of all divorces are filed by WOMEN! Forget the stereotype of the guy leaving his wife of 35 years for the young, brainless bimbo.

Do such things occur with men taking off on their wives? Of course. Does this soil the entire male sex? Only to women with an axe to grind.

Or to all the testosterone-drained nancy-boys, who see themselves as more wholesome and noble than their piggish gender...so much so they serve as women's crying towels (and sensitive, non-judgmental free therapists) on blogs like this one, hoping this will change (what do ya know) their single status!!! They are then bewildered to discover that women repeatedly see them as "just friends," not attracted to them "in that way."

The fact is that, in this society, women flake out on dates, don't call back, make excuses, cheat, etc. ALL THE TIME. I don't mind being exposed to their immature behavior early on -- as to know not to waste my time with them and move on. Perhaps this characterizes my lack of committment?

So, without further adue, I present the REAL Top Reasons Why Traditional Catholic Men Do Not Marry AMERICAN Women:

1. American society has declared a war against men: Schools are anti-male. Colleges are especially anti-male. The workplace is anti-male. And yes, divorce/family court is hideously anti-male. The law is anti-male (Title IX and VAWA). This climate is NOT conducive to being a productive man in the traditional sense.

2. Most conservative and self-styled traditional, younger, American Catholic women harbor the all the same modern, mainstream anti-male predjudices: here, it's even more insidious. For instance, they want to be stay-at-home mothers. Great. But then blame the entire male gender over most women having to work (never acknowledging the loss of the family wage). They also spout off (as we've seen) the same FEMINIST victim myths about divorce and abuse...not being able to differentiate between what is radical feminist and what is authentically chivalrous.

3. Oftentimes, Foreign women are more suited for marriage. Sorry. It's the way it is. They're less materially demanding, and hate men FAR less. Women from Poland, Malta, South America, and the Phillippines are also generally more faithfully Catholic. No, they're usually not the slave-mistresses the feminists portray them as (they typically are multi-lingual, educated, etc.). So of course:

4. Many American women are too materially demanding: There's NO refuting this. Complicating this is that more degrees/better job opps go to women in the X/Y generation. This goes a LONG way in explaining the downturn in marriage rates. Some trads will break out the popular feminist wage-gap myths to try to rebut this, but it can't be done. This point goes hand-in-hand with #2, as we must always "prove" our worthiness (whereas, since she goes to Mass, it's a given that she's a saint).

I think it's great that women earn degrees like they do, I personally like intelligent women. But too often, "learning" at college = acquired man hating skills.

5. NAGGING: Who in his right mind wants to marry a protoge of Deborah on "Everybody Loves Raymond?" To add to it, these women will masquerade as the disciples of Ephesians 5, but are actually just the opposite because they KNOW the have the divorce trump card at their fingertips. Never mind shared responsibility: SHE's the boss.

The fact is: Trad men have among the highest marriage and procreation rates in the country. We have every cause to be selective about who we choose to marry and raise our children with. Pitting yourselves against us with such a pious pretext is NOT doing God's will. Get over it. Move on.

What do you think it's like for us when we have a date with a presumably trad woman, dressed like Britney Spears, spouting off how she loves to sing Veni Sancte Spiritus, while becoming indignant because her dress evokes certain reactions from those piggish men? Such behavior on her part is pathological (histrionic). A scenario like this is too common. Are young women confused these days? YES. Is it our problem? No. Our job is to find the woman most suited for us, to marry and do God's will by procreating with -- NOT serving as a self-esteem booster-shot to every female we meet.

As for homosexuality: It's common among young trad men, all right -- those going into the seminary! Then when they're ordained, dejected women love their soft voices and aversion to real masculinity...so they find common ground.

All this stuff is well documented. I've already been paid big bucks to do it. But this is my little Christmas present to you. It is what it is.

One last thing: Consider the rate of recruitment into religious life for men and women. Men entering the priesthood has risen in recent years; women becoming sisters has dropped precipitously. Just look at alumni matriculation for traditional Catholic colleges into vocations: it's something like 2 or 3 to 1 (men to women). So if more women are marriage-bound, there are fewer men to marry. That, and I think that many of these trad women frankly avoid the convent with the goal of living "the good life."

M. Alexander said...

Dear Anonymous blogger,
You have written a very thoughtful and interesting comment here. Thank you. You have certainly given women and men a lot to think about.

However, I don't agree with some of what you write. For example approximately 20% of Catholic marriages end in divorce so to claim your reluctance to marry has to do with the divorce rate seems a bit too convenient. And who gave you or anyone the right to despair? Reminds me a bit of married couples who choose not to have children because the world is such a mess. Same reasoning.

And finally I wonder how you find yourself on a date or dates with a young, "tradtional" woman dressed like Britney Spears. Did you not notice how she dresses before you are already out on a date? Was her choir robe covering up her immodest attire?

Your comment about Traditional men entering religious life and the priesthood is an excellent one. God gets the best and that's the way it should be.

Finally, I hope that many young Trad men are not homosexual. I'm sure they exist but I would hope chastely and I hope their ordaination to the priesthood would not occur.

Thanks again, and I only wish that you had not written anonymously.
Sincerely,
M. Alexander

Anonymous said...

Dear M. Alexander,

I likewise appreciate your forthright discussion of male/female issues on this blog.

But first, I am not despairing over my marriage prospects. I simply responded to some of the outrageous man-bashing by many posters here. By my research, the Catholic divorce rate hovers around the national average -- 50 percent. But then again, define "Catholic." Cafeteria, nominal, churchgoing, traditionalist, and so on...These distinctions are very hard to come by. They say the NFP rate is 2 percent, but that figure has never been sourced.

For what it's worth, Crisis magazine did the feature on "assenting," recently married couples who are getting divorced at a rapid pace.

But regardless of the actual rate, we can conclude two things: 1) Women file in most cases under no-fault. 2) Men are usually screwed when it comes to finances and getting equal child custody. *Women often do take a financial hit in these cases (but typically benefit). If women do end up poorer, it is usually in the scenario in which he is the primary breadwinner (lets say w/ liquid assets of $5,000 or something modest for a couple with kids). IF she files and the case is litigated, it obviously costs many thousands of $'s. But in this case, the court would order him to pay both for his and HER attorneys! The court costs alone would clean him out. So when it finally comes time to divide the assets (where she gets something like 80 percent, he gets 20), the assets remaining are depleted. Of course, she could then go to just about any church in America and receive instant, unconditional sympathy over her "deadbeat" ex.

Is it any wonder why men are wising up and avoiding marriage to certain women?

To all the women here who have posted negative comments about trad men: If you are at least half-decent looking and non-obese, in your 20's and 30's and still single, I will bet anything that over the years you have instantly and callously dismissed and rejected SCORES of fine potential suitors who seemed too "boring" or "nerdy" for you. Either that, or they simply didn't have enough money to indulge your "fine" tastes. With the prospect looming of being left on the shelf -- with no Prince Charming in site, you are now bitter as all Hell toward the entire male sex. This is immaturity and self-centerdness, and speaks volumes to the type of mate you would be. If the men you have dated mistreated you in some fashion, bear in mind that YOU chose them as partners over many available loving and decent guys. To disparage ALL men on this basis also speaks volumes about your character, and is likely driving men away from you. If you want men to respond differently to you and "commit," then you have to change your hateful attitudes.

As for myself, I will get married when I decide I am ready to have a family. What other reason is there to get married? I have many potential marriage prospects the world over given that I am educated and mobile. At present, career matters dominate. The expenditure of effort required for a man to distinguish himself in today's climate is RARELY taken into account when it comes to marriage and family issues. He's either married by age 25, or seen in conservative and trad circles as either a potential queer or a philanderer. It was once assured that a working man could procure a "family wage." No longer. Now, he must contend with stifling female competition in the marketplace (in most lucrative professions nowadays) -- where women are educationally and socially favored. These same women are often befuddled to discover a dearth of "good providers" available to them. This isn't to say they'll never marry -- they just might find themselves as the primary breadwinner.

One such befuddled woman is Maggie Gallagher. Every time she opines on the decline of marriage, she is reflecting on her own failings. Gov't funds were expended for her to INCREASE marriage rates. So what happened?

The fact is, Maggie is a bonafide misandrist (i.e., man-hater). Dispersed throughout her 20 years worth of writing is the theme that men are jerks who can't commit. She got dumped by her lover (with whom she had a child out of wedlock) 20 years ago, and has been grinding her axe ever since by mindlessly rehashing feminist myths.

So here we are today. Marriage rates in freefall, and traditionally-oriented American women becoming man-haters in this mold. Men aren't going to take marriage advice from a man-hater who looks like Kathy Bates of Stephen King horror flick fame who has a profound love for Andrea Dworkin.

As for dress, I've never been on a date with a trad woman like that per se (though once with a conservative one dressed like a hooch). Just look at WYD: the American gals are often "lacking" in their dress (compared with the foreigners). My point is: young American women can be what they say they are; men must always struggle to prove their worthiness. If she says she's a trad, then it's taken at face value because she's an angelic victim who's as Catholic as Heaven. If he says he's a trad, the question invariably is "what's wrong with him? Why isn't he married?"

Anonymous said...

I am a bit baffled by what are called "trad" Catholic men. I come from a very Catholic family: father used to pray daily in front of our makeshift alter and I used to fall asleep to my mother saying the rosary in the living room. We were part of a close knit church and always participated in whatever lay activities came our way. I have never met a Catholic trad male, and if they are as bad as you say, then I hope the Catholic women don't marry them. It would be far better to let them become priests, and for good Catholic women to find nice non-Catholic men and convert them!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Wow, THIS has confirmed that I DEFINITELY can't date NOR marry a catholic guy.

I believe I am a very traditional catholic, but the stuff I read is ridiculous!

God doesn't give all girls marriage as a vocation, so, what am I supposed to do? Never go to college just so a catholic guy can find me "dateable"??? And then when I'm 40 something realize that God didn't intend me to get married, and oh well, surprise! Old woman who can't even support herself decently because she didn't go to college!

Besides... What's with the pants thing??? With so many perverts out there, the only thing that keeps me safe if I ever trip over something and fall are... Yes, you guessed right!... MY PANTS!

About contraception being wrong, yes I agree, and I also agree that women should be at home while raising children (yes, WHILE raising them), not her entire life until she rots!

I've foung catholic guys to be horribly obsessive, invasive, controllers, and most of them hypocrites, since they have MANY flaws, but are always looking for "the perfect virgin Mary wife" type when they can't even reach to be a "bad catholic" category... It makes me sick!

M. Alexander said...

Thanks for writing anonymous. You make a lot of good points.

Anonymous said...

I am conservative about sex, drugs, and alcohol,but I am definitley not conservative about women's rights, change, and me having a career and choosing the number of children I want to have. I have to say finding a Catholic guy who is moderate not Traditionally Orthodox and not too LIberal is harder. I find there are either fundamentalist Catholics out there or extreme heretics who don't respect their bodies and don't go to church. Being in the middle as I am on most issues its been really hard to find someone who feels the same way I do.

christina said...

Excuse me, but will the last Anonymous poster please remember about whom she is speaking when she uses Our Blessed Mother's name? Your last reference to the Mother of God was flippant at best. Thank you, and may God bless you.

Christina said...

I was referring to the second to last poster, excuse me.

Anonymous said...

Seems to me that the very cultural forces that are aimed at destroying the family have successfull implanted some real conflict between men and women in our society. The bickering I am reading is a bit worisome to me.

I married at 33 years old. Why?

1: I was immature. Society is really good at cranking out individuals who cling to adolescence far too long.

2: I found "finding a good woman" a challenge. And you know what? It wasn't until I realized that I needed to be a better man that I found a good woman.

3: It takes time to build a career / income that can sustain a family.

I think we need to re-consider how we are forming our children. We need to concentrate on pre-paring our youth for committment instead of teaching them to avoid it.

And as a side: I am totally tired of how the "Dad" is portrayed in the media. Girls: take notice... My wife was astounded when I pointed it it out to her last month that I was sick of how "Dad" was portrayed on TV. Look for it in the TV sitcoms and the commercials. Dad is always an idiot on TV. My wife saw it right away.

M. Alexander said...

You're right and we've noticed this for years. We now no longer have this problem we got rid of the tv and only watch DVDs.

Good for you realizing what was necessary to have a Catholic family. Hopefully your example will be noted.
Mary

Anonymous said...

HaHaHa...
I actually once read a personal ad in which the man said he was looking for someone with Mother Teresa's heart and Pam Anderson's body. Really!
I had a blast calling the newspaper's voice mail they gave him. I said I had Mother Teresa's body and Pamela Anderson's heart and what kind of car do you drive?
HaHaHa!

Anonymous said...

lol

so true

Anonymous said...

What is wrong with travel when it is for religious inspired reasons?

M. Alexander said...

Dear Anonymous- obviously you are a woman.

Mary

Anonymous said...

What is wrong with travel when it is for religious inspired reasons?

Anonymous said...

Yes, but do I have to be a man to understand this?

Anonymous said...

Wait a minute, Anonymous I:
You wrote, "To all the women here who have posted negative comments about trad men: If you are at least half-decent looking and non-obese, in your 20's and 30's and still single, I will bet anything that over the years you have instantly and callously dismissed and rejected SCORES of fine potential suitors who seemed too "boring" or "nerdy" for you. Either that, or they simply didn't have enough money to indulge your "fine" tastes"

That is entirely WRONG! I personally am only attracted to the "nerdy" ones, but only so much that I can hardly speak to them. When there's been others who were more exuberent and slick I have had to keep a distance --- so to hold out for the "nerdy" type. My own "'fine' tastes" consist in single men with integrity, modesty, quiet souls with thick glasses ... and who don't still live with mom.

mark said...

Obviously this "list" is from frustrated women/men who reject or refuse to live up to higher Catholic standards, thus distorting the traditional Catholic values into something "unfashionable", which in turn, alienates those who have not had the availability of a proper Catholic education.

Educated Catholics see this facade for what it is. This childish attempt to degrade the traditional Catholic standards for a spouse is very common in the secular/judeo American world.

Watch "Opra", "Survivor", or any other childish nonsense and you will agree with this article... or live the Catholic Faith and reject this article for the garbage it is.

Anonymous said...

+Hear Hear!, Mark+

This is very true. I am the most previous "anonymous", and I have to say that the truth is that there are very limited number of traditional men. I did not grow up traditional, and I was not introduced to such men, but had I been I would have married one. Also, a woman who is meek, as she should be, isn't going to make the first move. And traditional Catholic men, at least the better ones, usually have a tough time approaching single woman for whom they may have an interest. The stakes are so high because there are just so few of us Catholics with truly traditional values (inc. desiring to ascend the heights of the spiritual life rather than to live by worldly presumption). We are simply our own worse enemy if we attack other traditional Catholics when the fact is that we are a minority in the world, and meeting the right (by traditional, Catholic standards) someone is not easy for us.

Also, it may be true that traditional Catholic men who were raised in traditional Catholic homes may be more reluctant to marry a woman who was not raised in a traditional Catholic home. A person shouldn't condescend their values for marriage, but on the other hand, they shouldn't pass judgment on people that have acquired the values by means of grace, devotion and putting them into years of practice.

Trad women seem more open if they came from a non-trad background, but I don't think that is a good idea for us.

Anonymous said...

What does #2 mean anyway? Shouldn't mothers homeschool their children? I think who ever wrote this is a bit disgruntled and needs to move to a more traditional-minded region or community.

M. Alexander said...

Dear Anonymous, most recent,

Yes most mothers in most places should homeschool their children, unless there is a Traditional Catholic school available. However, I am satirizing the fact that there are such diverse opinions on this topic.

Thanks for reading ;)
Mary

Semper Eadem said...

It would be nice if you could add our blog to your blogroll: www.catholicheritage.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Where in the name of Goodness do you meet modest traditional Catholic women? I never meet any. The whole world seems to have been poisoned by the perversion of Feminism. The only women I ever see are trouser-wearing, loud-mouthed angry females who seem to think that they have a mandate from on high to instruct and educate men as to their proper role and appropriate behaviour and refuse to accept the slightest rebuke.And these are the ones that call themselves traditional! Mutual respect is demanded of us. And women were not given carte blanche to rule the roost. When I was at college, the whole agenda was feminist! Even the men taught feminism! And I was told that I was a woman-hater for questioning it!
Marriage with the modern woman? No thanks! I would rather stay celibate my whole life!

Anonymous said...

To the most previous anonymous: It really depends on where you live, as to what the odds are of meeting a nice, traditional woman. There are many people who feel as you do in EU especially, and a bit on the coastal areas in the US. Parts of the midwest in the US are very conservative, and there are many traditional families helping to influence the culture through their prayers and example. I know several (not many but several) women who are truly traditional by your standards. As a traditional woman who's usually not unattractive, I experience the same with regards to traditional men. There seems to be a few more traditional single women than men.

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Anonymous said...

i think this "top 10 list" is quite offensive! unfortunately, this kind of prejudice-spreading paper is a very common way out to avoid facing the real issues. of course it's much easier to make fun instead of trying to understand things... but i must say it is unfair and no stereotype of anykind can be the best way to express one's ideas...

Anonymous said...

Da kann ich nur zustimmen..

Anonymous said...

Ive basically quit looking. I have found that 90% of the traditional Catholic females ive known aren't looking for traditional Catholic men. It seems that they tend to go for the Novus Ordo guys and non-Catholics so they have a chance to "convert" them. Its a sad situation.

Anonymous said...

"Women are the only realists. Their whole object in life is to pit their realism against the extravagant, excessive, occasionally drunken idealism of men." Chesterton

Supertradmum said...

As a mom, I think part of the problem is that the parents are not helping their children to chose wisely. In our society, in America, parents have abdicated their rights to give advice on the subject of marriage. Being independent is fine, but even adult children need guidance.

In addition, many young men do not want to sacrifice their lifestyles for children. The anti-life culture has affected them as well, in a more subtle way.

Anonymous said...

I am a traditional Catholic and met my husband at the Latin Mass. I would only wear skirts/dresses, want lots of children, would homeschool, didin't attend college. I met different types of men and felt blessed that God sent me such a traditional, religious Catholic man. Just want to be a housewife and mother ... cook, bake,clean, do laundry,etc. Now my husband suddenly wants to divorce me ...what am I to do?! Anyone that reads this please pray for me, thanks.

Guiseppe said...

um...wow...we have a modern skeptic here. Apparently, it is a problem for a guy to hold to Traditional Catholic values and try to find the ideal spouse...I happen to know several Traditional Catholic guys that have gotten married to beautiful women and had wonderful large families.

I love how this article assumes Traditional Catholic guys as snotty nosed brats who only want the very best to fulfill all their desires...like a woman to wear a dress skirt!!!

God forbid that a man seek a modest wife as opposed to the typical modern girl in tight fitting jeans strutting down the street.

God forbid that a man should seek a wife that heeds St. Paul's admonishment and covers her head with a veil.

God forbid that a man seek a woman who desires no more and no less the amount of children that He so desires (I think everybody should have no more than two children, otherwise you won't be able to afford that new car or the 60" TV.)

God forbid that a man seek out a woman that would be submissive! How dare he, of course that is old fashioned jibberish from the Bible, we live in America! Liberty, Equality and Stupidity for all!

I am sorry that this article to be written to justify somebody's apparent dislike for the supposed stereotype of a Traditional Catholic.

I think we should root for your average Joe who loves to see his women in spaghetti straps and plunging necklines. The men who objectify women through their bodies. Definitely! Forget those nerds who actually are concerned with any kind of principles that are handed down to us via Tradition and the Bible. Great idea!

Guiseppe said...

oh and I am sure that my post will be approved...

Anonymous said...

the top ten list is great. i totally agree. i want to say to the 'anonymous' male who gives his own disgusting list and writes several pompous and arrogant comments that he gives women lots of reasons to hate him. he embodies the worst qualities of men and is particularly worthy of contempt because he is traditional. instead of being sympathetic to women and himself condemning the selfish and destructive behaviors of men he apologizes for men and blames women. Why are so many women filing for divorce? Maybe they are absolutely unable to tolerate being treated like a doormat by a man they took care of, had children with, sacrificed their own interests to make his life happier. I am sorry to say that some traditional men say one thing and do another. Furthermore some traditional are traditional because they feel it will give them a justification to oppress and control women!!! i know your number Mr. Anonymous. Someone else pointed it out: Why is it that you find yourself on dates with women who dress like Brittany Spears? I'll tell you why because you look down on women, you want to dominate a woman and you are at heart a libertarian!!! You just want an equal you want a subordinate so the cutey who flirts and dresses like that appeals to your twisted sense of masculinity. Stop hiding behind traditionalism you hypocrite. If you were really traditional you would not write these bitter and hateful remarks. You would view women as full and complete human beings worthy of respect and you'd listen to their VALID complaints.

Anonymous said...

Uhhhhh how can you use this word SUBMISSIVE! Don't you know how offensive it is to women. How sad that this woman who said all she wanted to do was to have kids and cook and be home is now finding her husband wants a divorce! I think she needs to see the danger of this SUBMISSION. I am traditional in my Catholicism because I believe that the new mass is a perversion. I don't accept it and I want to live in accordance with the Church of Ages. I do not want to live though as a woman in the 1500s. I think we can be EDUCATED and ENLIGHTENED and also conservative religiously. The danger of not going to college and RELYING on a man is illustrated by the case of this poor abandoned woman! Don't rely on a man. Build yourself. These are two different things. We have to live in the world and survive in the world.

R. Acain said...

I recently met a traditionalist Catholic guy from a Christian dating website. He's American and I am born and raised Filipino. I've never known about traditionalists, etc. mainly because it was never really openly discussed in church here in the Philippines. I have not met him in person but as far as our month old relationship is going, it's been a roller coaster ride. I have been trying to dig in to his ideals by learning about traditionalism in the Catholic Church. I am a conservative Catholic myself but I love my boyfriend and I am willing to bridge our gap between us. This blog and the discussions have truly been insightful and have cleared some cobwebs in my mind. Anyone of you can suggest good websites/tips for me so I can better improve my relationship with him? He's already proposed to marry me despite not having met me in person. This is the confusing part though, because, I think of it and ask myself, what traditionalist would ever want to marry someone he hasn't spent at least 8 months with and hasn't really met in person? Suggestions and commentaries even personal email advice are very welcome. He wants to meet me next month, January 2012 here in the Philippines and so this matter is deemed urgent. If you please, you can send me email replies at rosannechatty22@gmail.com
Thank you for all your kind replies. God bless all of us!

Anonymous said...

I wonder if there are 10 reasons traditional catholic women do not get married?

Anonymous said...

Interesting comments. I was a traditional catholic young male. I was a virgin for most of my single life (~3 months of bad decisions during my 3 year courtship), and for most of my marriage. My eventual wife was catholic, but had at least 8 sexual partners, and used me to settle herself down. My brother is making the same decision with the woman he's now engaged to. In hindsight, I would have a loved a little more guidance. I've been racked with guilt since feeling the loss of grace, and am certainly not the same man I was before. The funny thing was that I had turned away many other women, some of whom were very forward, prior to my eventual wife. I wish I had looked a little harder for a more traditional wife, and been a bit more wary of a catholic girl who wanted sex within the first 2 weeks of our dating life, and who's Eve like arguments, I accepted with the same lake of forethought as did Adam. Now, I'm not even half the man I was, not happy, and longing for the days when my life was more disciplined. Trad guys should loosen up a little, but shouldn't probably date women who have been having sex with various guys for over a decade, prior to finding the light, and wanting to date someone like them.

Anonymous said...

A couple of issues here. The trad community can be very standoffish and judgemental. I have seen it first hand many times. On the other hand there are beautiful, true Catholics there that KNOW..actually KNOW their faith and love it. That said I can see the difficulty because society continues to lie to women non stop 24/7 in the media and culture telling them they can be this, have that, and do it all, just get on the pill and dump the rugrats off and daycare and enjoy your empowered life!

In closing here is a rather ominous quote from Saint Hildegard (Doctor of the Church) regarding a future time of chastisement "After that there will be so few men left that seven women will fight for one man, that they will say to the man: "Marry me to take the disgrace from me." For in those days it will be a disgrace for a woman to be without child, as it was by the Jews in the Old Testament."
Too proud to wear a skirt or veil in the Church in front of God almighty truly present? Well, tough times a comin' per Saint Hildegard.


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Anonymous said...

These bitter feminazis bash "Traditional Catholic" men who make up, what, .05% of single men?

The real problem is what one of the other Anonymous people said, and that is the ENTRENCHED MISANDRY inculcated into women by the leftist, secular, culture.

Google "The Misandry Bubble" and read the well-written, and SPOT-ON essay written by an Indian fellow (not a NATIVE American) as he is not from Western culture originally, but sees the trees before the forest.

He says 22% of men (like MYSELF) have been left to die on the singles vine, so we have EITHER been forced out of the "marriage game" or FLAT-OUT refuse to get married (if one can get the milk, why buy the COW???).

That leaves all of you beautiful, enchanting, intelligent, hypergamous, divorce for the money, beer-guzzling, pot smoking, pill popping, Daddy's Princesses to become wife #3,4,or 5 of some Alpha male that you try to steal from the Alpha male's PREVIOUS wife.

The 22% probably contain some Traditional Catholic men ("Trads"
as many of you call them), but as other posters have said, they have never even met a Traditional Catholic man!

So that means it's men of many religions and also non-religious, women using and abusing, cads, bailing out of marrying you bitches who are bitching on here about decent men not marrying twats like yourselves.

The BIGGEST LIE that the leftist, secular, culture tells women is that men JUST CAN'T GET THROUGH LIFE WITHOUT SEX.

Keep believing that. Some of the 22% of men who refuse to get married have figured out to just think about baseball.

Do not ask for whom the bell tolls, for it tolls for thee.

==========================

Joe Matties said...

We do exist. Where are you at? I'm a trad I guess. I haven't gotten married because I can't find one single girl in my age range all over the united states that will attend the Latin mass and wants to raise good strong catholic children. And I make lots of money. I've never my based dating on looks. I just want a real catholic and not some modernist.

Joe Matties said...

Lol right oh